MeyerBros --> Main --> Design

(http://blog.meyerbros.org for discussion.)

some possibly-relevant bookmarks:

• notes from the Starting Small panel
• Ten Stupid Mistakes Made by the Newly Self-Employed
• Pricing a Project

meyerbros design plan

what defines us?

• innovative and collaborative
  • interactive web experience
  • web as social tool, not reference book
• robust, flexible, hand-coded sites
  • standards-based design
  • accessibility
  • forward-thinking code
• customisation of powerful, proven open source solutions
• returning control to the client
  • your site will not be hostage to a web geek
  • our content management system will allow you to easily and adeptly update your own site
• we take the time to listen to you and understand the needs of your organisation, its stakeholders and constituency.
• we're not lame

our target audience:

there's a market for non-profit sites, but is there money behind it? i think that is where our audience may be hiding. we can really target clients who care about social responsability in all aspects of their business.

Is there a difference betweeen our "target audience" and where the money is? What if our target audience or constituency is non-profit orgs that share our values, but we recognise that we have to do other jobs to subsidise them. Or do we work with clients to get grant-based funding? Or do we write a giant grant to underwrite the service we are providing to non-profits?

I don't really know the market very well. What did Bryan F tell you? I could talk to Andrew Burkhalter - he works for OneNW?, which does various kinds of tech assistance for nonprofits out in the Seattle area. They charge for their services and they seem to be doing alright. On a gut level, it seems there are enough Menno-connected nonprofits out there that we'd have good connections with. I guess the problem is going to be charging them - connections and supporting their work means a strong temptation to donate. For instance, CPT's site could use some design work, but... ~carl

one thing that matters to me on principle is that we not undersell our skills. what we do effects market rates, and people who do what we do deserve to be paid for it. i don't feel like dragging that down. at the same time, none of us care about raking it in, and all of us care about the nfps we want to target - so we don't want to overcharge. i like the sliding-scale solution that makes it clear what we are worth, but is flexible for organizations we care about. as Blue Flavor points out - transparency is key in that. (good site BTW) ~eric

what do we want to be called?

Meyerbros is obvious, but a google search on the phrase (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=meyer+bros) turns up about a million others in the same crowd. What about a misspelling like Meyer Broz? Or is that too clever?

Yes, misspellings are too clever by half. Actually, of all the options I've seen so far, I think I like MeyerBros? best. It has a certain classy, old-timey, country-style, down-home feel to it which is more 'different' in the tech market than any of the clever geeky postmodern names we might dream up (see the list under 'brainstorm'). In fact, the Google list makes the point perfectly: look at all those Meyer Bros. It's a list of dairy farms, construction companies, old-time Missouri gas stations and Case tractor dealerships. Not a single tech-related firm in the bunch. Which to me says A) there won't be a significant namespace-collision issue (except for the unfortunate fact that meyerbros.com is taken), and B) it gives us a unique hometown Meyer-family-next-door spin, which I think might actually connect pretty well with our target market. It's a thought, anyway. ~carl

agreed. but i wonder then about going Blue Heron - even more natural and rural, even more visually interesting, etc. visual interest is one concern i have (for obvious reasons), but also the fact that several of the key partners will most likely not be meyerbros and i'd rather not hijak the name. ~eric

"I really like Blue Heron, but there's already a [http://www.blueheroncreative.com/portfolio_web/web.html Blue Heron] our there that looks quite similiar to what we would be doing. ~Tim"

how do we set our rates?

I talked to a friend of mine in the UK who is freelancing for nonprofit orgs and he told me he's charging:

1) £250 per day for heavy-coding work 2) £200 per day for design, testing and light-coding.

This comes out to between $350 and $400 a day. Keep in mind that's before taxes and before a whole bunch of expenses get taken off.

freelancing here i've done different things. one cheap offer i've given (for a NFP i know) was $400 for the first page and $25 consecutive pages. that's cheap - but there's something nice about the flat project rate. i've also done hourly - something like $40-$80/hr is reasonable for freelance (depending on your client). i think companies often charge more along the $100/hr lines. i might talk to bryan falcon some about the various options and what they've done. ~eric

any word from Bryan? Again, I don't really know our market. Charging "per-page" doesn't make much sense for most dynamic sites. I think hourly or daily rates would work better, though we could talk about doing whole projects on a flat rate. In that case you just have to be really careful to get the requirements nailed down firmly before you agree to the fee. (Here's an essay about startup web design pricing). In any case, I think we could have a sort of sliding-scale situation for nonprofits we really like. I'm not looking to get rich, just make a decent living (that'll probably be hard enough anyway). ~carl

how do we divide the pay?

Equally?

Or we could track time and do it by hours. Some projects may require a lot more design work and less programming, or vice versa. We may have different amounts of time available to put in at various points, along with differing needs to make a living. Plus, Jonny might never do anything at all :-) On the flip side, though, if we were all working on it as our primary job, and felt like we were balancing out the work in a more-or-less equal way, I could be open to a simple equal split. Minus a hefty percentage to go back into the business. That's one thing I learned from Blue Heron Farm. ~carl

"Sounds good to me. Tracking hours seems like a good policy to start out with." ~Tim

how do we organize the business?

Maybe someone should take a business class? And I think we need to be clear about what makes us different from any other random web design firm. What's our competitive advantage? And we should look at who our potential audience is.

i'm looking into an entrepeneurship class around here that was recommended. we'll see. target audience is a good idea - i think i'll add that as a question. ~eric

I think taking a business or entrepreneurship class is a fine idea. I also think we can just start small, keep careful track of everything we do, learn from our mistakes, and see how it goes. If we can all manage to find a computer, an internet connection, and a place to live, then our overhead cost is practically nonexistent. That's the way we did with Blue Heron Farm, anyway - arrange your situation so you have very little overhead cost, then just dive in and learn as you go. Blue Heron made more money each year that we did it.

how do we divide the labor?

Each person should write a list of all our skills that could possibly relate to the business. Then we can compare them and see where they overlap and where they don't.

i like that. ~eric

Eric's related skills

• fast, self-motivated learner
• web markup/design
  • fluent XHTML/CSS
    • experienced with hand-coding clean standards-based, semantically meaningful, accessible web documents
  • attention to detail in code
  • fluent Photoshop/Illustrator design
  • strong sense of UI/site structure
    • interested in doing more with this...
• web programming
  • good clean front-end PHP
  • working on JavaScript?
  • experience in flash (for unobtrusive design uses of course)
• writing
  • clear, concise writing (poor spelling)
  • experience writing for various formats/media
• organization/admin
  • enjoy client relations
  • visionary
  • some marketing skills/interests

etc...

Ok, here goes. ~carl

Carl's skills that might be related to this project

• technical skills
  • programming
    • fluent in PHP, Perl, Python
    • conversant in C, C++, bash scripting
    • learning Ruby
  • web programming frameworks
    • fluent using PHP for the web
    • learning Zope 3 and Django (Python) and Ruby on Rails
  • Linux system administration
    • familiar with Gentoo and RedHat?/Fedora systems/servers
    • conversant with Debian
    • familiar with compiling, installing, configuring and using a variety of open-source web-related tools
  • good knowledge of XHTML/CSS
    • experienced with hand-coding standards-based, semantically meaningful, accessible web documents
  • i like playing with new web/programming tools and toys. so I generally pick things up pretty fast.
• organizational skills
  • attention to detail
  • proofreading: perfect spelling, good feel for grammar and flow
  • ability to write clearly and concisely
  • experience using and facilitating consensus-based decision-making processes
• well, you know, i could go on. but that'll have to do for now :-)

Tim's related skills

• Web skills
  • Experience with installation and customization of Drupal CMS for a variety of clients
  • Familiarity with MySQL? using PHPMyAdmin?
  • Some PHP meddling
  • Finding, Evaluating and Implimenting open source solutions for clients (i.e. OWL and CRE Loaded
  • SEO work including focus on links to sub-pages. See Mennonite on Google (LMC), Anabaptist on Google (AN)
  • Experience structuring and organising a large of content in a usable way. Includes working moving existing sites into new systems.
  • Design using basic CSS
  • Problem solving. Sometimes it takes a long time but between lateral thinking, google searches, open source support forums and occasionally favors from geek friends I manage to get most problems solved.
• Media skills
  • Photography. I prefer to use my own photography rather than stock stuff in design.
  • Familiarity with Gimp (OS Photoshop clone)
  • Writing. I spent 4 years studying this so I better be able to do it.
  • Editing. Especially for style and readability.
• People skills
  • Selling Drupal. Or other open source solutions. I get really evangelistic some times. I think I get it from my grandfather who was a lime spreader salesman and preacher.
  • Working with stakeholders. I designed and administered a usability study for stakeholders of the LMC to find out what they used the site for and what navigation system would work for them.
  • Working with Nonprofit boards. I've worked with five different nonprofits in the UK, met regularly with their directing bodies and designed sites for them. I've also had one bad experience that I've learned from.
  • Training staff to use CMS themselves. With varying success in 3 different orgs. Hoping to explore more of how to get communit to effectively use CMS tools.
  • Networking and maintaining strategic relationships in a variety of settings. Working in the UK has taught me a lot about the importance of building working relationships with a wide range of people.

how do we make hiring/firing decisions?

We should find an advisor or two and set up some sort of advisory committee that could give some outside perspective while setting up and also during times of particular stress or growth.

I think an advisory committee is a fine idea. I think all of us who are serious about doing this should join up as an equal partnership, and decisions can be made within that group on a consensus basis. If there are others who don't want to put in the time and energy of being full partners, but whose skills we want to utilize on a per-job basis, we can make decisions about that as a group.

"seems reasonable to me ~Tim"

collective existing portfolio

Add 3 or more sites you've worked on. If you have time, leave a comment or two about what you like about your sites and those of others and what you don't. Be sure to sign them.

Carl's example sites

• http://www.lakotaaction.net and http://www.defendblackhills.org - I did the design for both of these, and some of the HTML. They are both running on the Activist Mobilization Platform, an average PHP CMS which I have nothing to do with that generates crappy HTML. I think the LAN site looks alright, and the Defenders site not-so-great. The HTML is really a hacked mess, including the parts that are in my control. I've learned a lot about standards-based design since I did this site. Plus, I don't intend to be the design wing of this partnership. So...
• http://www.meyerloewen.net - This is what you get if you ask me to make a site for myself. Utterly simple graphics-free design, completely standards-based, running off a super-simple PHP CMS that I wrote myself that does just what I need it to do and no more.
• http://calendar.wakanyeja.org - This is a free calendar package called SchoolBell written in Python/Zope3. I didn't write it, but I did set it up, customize it, and fix several bugs in it. For whatever that's worth.
• http://work.mccoln.org - So this is a skin for PmWiki which I didn't write, though I picked it because I like the clean and simple look. I set up PmWiki on this server such that it can be used to host a multitude of wiki sites (currently six), plus I set up automated backup scripts, I manage the Apache virtualhosting setup, etc. How do you "demo" those skills, anyway?

Tim's sites (chronological)

(all sites using Drupal unless otherwise noted)

• http://www.metanoiabooks.org - this site has been the source of many headaches for me in the last year. It's forced me to learn more PHP then I'd known before. I've also learned how messy an open source project can be. Ended up forking over $100 for an augmented solution with support that ended up not providing the one feature I was paying for. Also helped design Access queries to upload data from existing database. A big learning experience. Thank goodness its almost done.
• http://www.cptuk.org.uk/new/ - update of cptuk.org.uk that isn't live yet. Taught me just how fast I can throw together a drupal site and then how long I can delay sending it live. I don't like the brown background, but its a tribute to the CPT main site design.
• http://www.menno.org.uk - My first experiment with drop down menus. I spent two months trying to reconcile a one pixel difference between IE and Firefox. Probably the site on which I'm most happy with the overall look and feel. Included a good deal of work messing around with code to get the event module to fit client needs (and wants).
• http://www.speak.org.uk - I threw this site together in 2004 when the implimentation of phpnuke they were using got repeatedly hacked and no one had the time or skills to upgrade it. I'm not happy with the design, but this is probably the site in which I've most effectively managed to train staff to contribute their own content including posting images. And there's even a bit of a forum going.
• http://www.anabaptistnetwork.com - this isn't a particularly pretty site, but there's a lot of information in there that's organised reasonably well and all together it attracted 70,000 unique visits in April and May, which I'm quite happy with.
• http://www.justresponse.org - site I did in 2001 and early 2002 in response to 9/11. Given that it was before I'd ever used a CMS, I'm pretty happy with the clean and simple lay out. I'm also amazed it's still up since I was told the funding was cut many years ago.

Eric's example sites

• http://www.meyerbros.org - built on WIKI and WordPress?, I wrote all the current XHTML and CSS (multiple designs). reflects whatever i've felt like trying visually over the last month or so - but all with standards-compliant code (down to correct source order).
• http://www.centerstageacademy.com - built on MovableType?, this is my first use of blogging software as a faux-CMS. I could do even better now with WP (which is more flexible). I've also learned quite a bit more about accessible CSS since then. That was a few months ago.
• php for: http://www.newworldarts.org - my first PHP playground. the design has changed, but the events are all still running off my/our (thanks bro) PHP code and flat-file databases. A simple solution for a simple need - but very cleanly done.
• much more graphic design experience. you want static, i can do static. you want flexible, i can do that too. you want IE-friendly, I wish you didn't.